Tangelic Talks – Season 03 | Episode 07
Building Strong Institutions, Social Justice and Ethical Climate Governance w/ Professor Narnia Bohler-Muller
12 minutes to read
In this episode of Tangelic Talks (S03E07), co-hosts Victoria Cornelio and Andres Tamez sit down with Professor Narnia Bohler-Muller, one of South Africa’s foremost legal scholars and advocates for social justice. As Divisional Executive for the Developmental, Capable, and Ethical State at the Human Sciences Research Council (HSRC) and an admitted advocate of the High Court of South Africa, Prof. Bohler-Muller brings decades of expertise in constitutionalism, governance, human rights, and feminist advocacy.
This conversation explores South Africa’s unique communitarian approach to rights, the role of Chapter Nine institutions in strengthening democracy, and the ethical responsibilities of researchers working with communities. We also discuss South Africa’s global outlook—from practicing Ubuntu in international relations to addressing paradoxes in human rights and navigating a just energy transition in a coal-dependent economy.
With insights drawn from her contributions to Women20, BRICS, and the Indian Ocean Rim Association, Prof. Bohler-Muller sheds light on what makes institutions strong, how ethics shape governance, and why women’s empowerment is central to building a resilient, inclusive, and sustainable future.
From Law to Research: A Journey of Purpose
Prof. Bohler-Muller didn’t start out intending to be a lawyer. She initially dreamed of becoming a journalist, fascinated by politics and South Africa’s transformation in the post-apartheid era. Her father, however, encouraged her toward law—a path that opened new horizons.
Her studies deepened into a doctorate in law (LLD), where she focused on the philosophy of law—its origins, limits, and its role as an institution itself. Over time, she shifted from teaching law to conducting research, with a strong conviction that sound policy must be evidence-based.
At the HSRC, she leads work that translates rigorous research into practical recommendations for policymakers. “Decision makers need not listen to us,” she notes, “but we do it anyway—because evidence matters.”
Ethics as a Way of Life
Throughout her career, Prof. Bohler-Muller has carried one guiding principle: ethics and integrity above all.
Ethics, she explains, go beyond compliance or institutional codes. They are a way of living one’s life in a manner that avoids harm, champions fairness, and contributes to the common good.
She emphasizes values such as:
- Transparency and accountability in governance.
- Objectivity and fairness in research.
- Human rights and social justice as non-negotiable pillars of democracy.
In her feminist work, she often refers to the ethic of care—a responsibility not just for individual justice, but also for community wellbeing and ecological stewardship.
Strong Institutions: More Than Structures
What exactly is a strong institution?
According to Prof. Bohler-Muller, institutions are not just buildings, policies, or frameworks. They are living systems, made strong—or weak—by the people within them.
South Africa offers both cautionary tales and success stories. Despite facing corruption scandals, the resilience of constitutional institutions like the Auditor General and the Public Protector shows that values and integrity can safeguard democracy.
But when individuals within institutions prioritize personal gain over public service, even the most well-designed structures falter. “Institutions survive when people are strong enough to resist manipulation,” she explains.
Ubuntu and the Cultural Roots of Governance
One of the most profound insights from this episode is how culture shapes governance. In South Africa, the philosophy of Ubuntu—“I am because you are, and you are because I am”—serves as a foundation for democracy and human rights.
Ubuntu reminds us that:
- Personal gain should not come at the expense of community wellbeing.
- Human dignity is relational, not individualistic.
- Governance must reflect interdependence and care.
This communitarian approach underpins South Africa’s constitution, which is unique in enshrining not only civil and political rights, but also socioeconomic rights—to food, healthcare, shelter, and education.
Human Rights, Gender Equality, and Social Justice
A central theme of Prof. Bohler-Muller’s work is the inseparability of women’s empowerment and strong institutions.
- Institutions that fail to protect women’s rights—by ignoring sexual harassment, tolerating gender-based violence, or excluding women from leadership—are fundamentally failing society.
- Empowering women is not just a matter of fairness; it drives economic growth, democratic stability, and social resilience.
- Intersectionality matters: race, class, and gender shape women’s vulnerabilities and opportunities differently across contexts.
At the Women20 (W20), she has worked tirelessly to build consensus among diverse nations on issues such as:
- Climate justice and sustainability
- Closing the digital divide
- The care economy
- Entrepreneurship and financial inclusion
- Gender-based violence and femicide
Despite ideological differences, she celebrates that W20 has consistently reached consensus, proving that shared priorities can unite nations for gender equity.
Research, Policy, and Ethical Evidence
As a scholar and research leader, Prof. Bohler-Muller stresses that evidence must guide policy. But research itself must be ethical:
- Researchers must seek informed consent, avoiding extractive practices.
- Data must be collected through rigorous methodologies—surveys, focus groups, key informant interviews—applied scientifically and tested repeatedly.
- Communities are not data points; they are partners, and researchers have a duty to avoid harm and contribute positively.
She warns against covert or manipulative research, arguing that transparency and accountability are essential for trust in both science and governance.
International Diplomacy and the Global South
Representing South Africa in BRICS, W20, and the Indian Ocean Rim Association, Prof. Bohler-Muller has seen firsthand the challenges of multilateral negotiation.
While ideological divides exist—between hyper-liberal, profit-driven states and those prioritizing social welfare—she finds hope in the ability to reach common ground on issues like jobs for women, leadership opportunities, and even recognizing gender-based violence as an economic issue.
South Africa’s role, she argues, is to amplify African and Global South perspectives, ensuring that international governance reflects diverse worldviews rather than privileging a few powerful states.
Climate Justice and the Just Energy Transition
The episode also highlights the pressing issue of climate change. For Prof. Bohler-Muller, the debate between economic development and environmental protection is a false dichotomy.
“A dignified life cannot mean polluting the environment because it’s convenient.”
She advocates for a just energy transition: moving away from coal and fossil fuels while ensuring that workers and vulnerable communities are not left behind. This requires:
- Reskilling and upskilling workers.
- Investing in new industries and innovation.
- Embedding environmental justice in constitutional and governance frameworks.
Key Takeaways from the Conversation
✨ Strong institutions depend on strong people. Laws and frameworks matter, but values and integrity make them real.
🌍 Ubuntu is a governance philosophy. Community, care, and interdependence must guide institutions.
👩⚖️ Women’s empowerment is central. Disempowered women lead to disempowered societies; equity drives resilience.
📊 Ethical research builds ethical policy. Evidence-based governance must be transparent, rigorous, and community-centered.
🤝 International cooperation is possible. Even diverse nations can find consensus when they focus on shared priorities.
🌱 Climate justice is inseparable from social justice. A just transition ensures no one is left behind.
Building Ethical and Inclusive Futures
Prof. Narnia Bohler-Muller’s journey—from law and philosophy to research, policy, and international diplomacy—offers a blueprint for ethical governance and strong institutions.
Her message is clear: institutions are not static structures—they are shaped daily by people, values, and culture. For democracy and social justice to thrive, we need individuals and communities who are self-aware, principled, and committed to the common good.
In her words, “If we become more self-aware, we become more responsive to others.” That awareness is the seed from which strong institutions, resilient societies, and just transitions can grow.
Thought Provoking Q&A Session with Professor Narnia Bohler-muller
Yeah, I think sometimes you just need strong institutions to set things right. We wouldn’t even be here in South Africa today without them—whether political parties, churches, or grassroots organizations. From a lawyer’s perspective, I see the limits of the law very clearly, but I also see its purpose. If you use law in the spirit of constitutionalism—rather than as a tool to punish dissent—you create a different kind of society. One where you reward good conduct and address bad conduct in a fair way.
Over the years, I’ve come to understand that large institutions do play an important role. What matters is getting them to focus on what really counts. Instead of chasing a billion priorities and falling into bureaucracy, they should home in on five or so key principles and really deliver on those.
It really depends on where you come from, whether you see something as valuable to your society or not. Even human rights are interpreted differently across societies. In South Africa, for example, we have a very communitarian approach to human rights.
Our constitution doesn’t just guarantee civil and political rights like freedom of association, freedom of movement, or the right to vote. It also includes cultural rights, such as the right to language, and socioeconomic rights—like the right to healthcare, education, food security, and shelter. Brazil and India are two other countries that follow this model.
This communitarian approach means you often can’t claim rights just for yourself as an individual, but you can claim them on behalf of others. To me, socioeconomic rights are foundational, a bit like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. People need to be fed and educated before they can meaningfully participate in political life. If someone is hungry or weak, they’re not able to exercise their right to vote or to engage as a full member of society.
So, giving people civil and political rights while ignoring poverty and inequality doesn’t make sense. You can’t just say “we’re a democracy” and stop there—you have to make sure people’s basic needs are met first.
In South Africa, we have very strong “Chapter Nine” institutions—these are bodies established to protect democracy. They include the Gender Equality Commission, the Human Rights Commission, the Public Protector, and the Auditor General. These institutions allow people to report rights infringements, which can then be investigated and taken to court. They play a very important role in our society.
We also have a very powerful Constitutional Court, which has developed a progressive philosophy known as “transformative constitutionalism.” People really look to the Constitutional Court to help us think through what it means to be South African.
Beyond that, there are also legal clinics, including university-based ones, that work directly with communities. So there are multiple layers of support—from grassroots legal structures to the highest court—that people can turn to when their rights are threatened. It’s a system that operates at different levels, which makes justice more accessible.
What’s really important is to be an ethical researcher. That means following proper research protocols, being objective, and relying on evidence rather than personal opinion. Collecting evidence in different ways—like surveys, public opinion polls, key informant interviews, and focus groups—helps strengthen your findings.
It also means being accountable, thorough, and honest, while considering how your work affects communities. Ethical research isn’t about extracting information and leaving; it’s about respecting the people involved and ensuring your methods and outcomes have integrity.
Part of this also comes down to the different ways of interpreting data. Before I came to the HSRC, I had no experience with surveys or quantitative work, and I was skeptical. But when applied correctly and scientifically, surveys can provide real value. If you don’t weight your data properly or follow the right steps, you risk producing outcomes that don’t actually reflect reality. It can feel pedantic, but applying the science rigorously—and constantly testing your evidence—is essential. And sometimes, you have to be willing to face uncomfortable results, even if they aren’t what people want to hear.
South Africa is very intentional about aligning with both the African agenda and the broader global South agenda, especially within platforms like the G20 and Women20. But alignment doesn’t mean doing so at the expense of others. It’s also about demonstrating the value of African-centric thinking and global South perspectives.
We’ve been criticized for some of our public policy stances, but I think it’s important to remember Nelson Mandela’s principle that South Africa should be “a light to the rest of the world” and maintain friendships with everyone. That’s why Pretoria hosts more embassies than any other city in the world—including controversial ones, like our recognition of Palestine. Ubuntu, the idea of interconnectedness, applies at the international level too. States and societies often overlook the human dimension by dismissing people from countries considered authoritarian, without even trying to understand them.
This is where grassroots values matter—they provide a foundation that higher institutions can’t easily overturn. And that’s also why the multilateral space is so important. It pulls us out of our immediate context and forces us to engage with the complexity of the wider world.
Personally, I’m deeply committed to human rights and gender equality, yet I also work with researchers from Russia and China. It’s about living with paradox. Holding onto values while engaging with those who may not share them is essential, especially when tackling global challenges like climate change.
That’s why we emphasize the idea of a just energy transition. In South Africa, we’re heavily reliant on coal. So if we’re going to shift from coal to renewables, we need to make sure people aren’t left behind.
This is where the socioeconomic dimension becomes critical. Environmentalists and activists are working to raise awareness that while we tackle the climate crisis, we also need to look after the communities whose livelihoods depend on coal—like those employed in the industry.
It’s not an easy challenge, and shutting down coal without a plan would be devastating for the economy. But there are ways to manage the transition: through upskilling, reskilling, and creating new industries. When we talk about technology and innovation, this is where it becomes essential—generating new forms of work that can support people in the shift.
At the same time, we also have to recognize that we’re moving toward what some call a “post-work society.” The traditional ways we think about employment and income are already changing, and the energy transition may accelerate that shift.
Professor Narnia Bohler-Muller
Divisional Executive of the Developmental, Capable and Ethical State (DCES) at the Human Sciences Research Council

Professor Narnia Bohler-Muller (BJuris LLB LLM LLD) is the Divisional Executive of the Developmental, Capable and Ethical State (DCES) at the Human Sciences Research Council. She was an adjunct professor of law at the Nelson R. Mandela School of Law at the University of Fort Hare and is a Research Fellow at the Centre for Gender and African Studies, Faculty of Humanities, University of the Free State. She is an admitted advocate of
the High Court of South Africa and served as a part-time Presiding Officer for the Private Security Regulatory Authority (PSIRA) for seven years. She has represented South Africa as lead in international for a such as Women20; BRICS; IBSA and the Indian Ocean Rim Association (IORA). This year she is Head of Delegation of W20 South Africa. With a career that spans more than 25 years, she has made significant strides in research and academia.
Her research interests include international and constitutional law, gender, human rights, democracy, governance and social justice.